tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 25, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
tonight, we are all in. >> we will demand equal justice for michael brown jr.! >> the calls for justice continue as thousands gather to lay michael brown to rest. >> michael brown's blood is crying from the ground. >> tonight, the latest from ferguson. plus the latest on why darren wilson's last police department was completely disbanded. and what communities can do when policing gets out of control. >> the only thing that messes up good apples is if you don't take the rotten apples out of the bushel. >> then senator chris murphy on the recent escalation in the simmering war between russia and ukraine. and as the hunt for the killer of james wright foley continues, is an expanded attack on isis imminent? >> the president thus far has not made a decision to order additional military action in syria. >> "all in" starts right now.
on a punishingly hot day in the st. louis area thousands of mourners flocked to the missionary baptist church in st. louis. we call him mike mike. >> michael was a big >> on a day when an article in "the new york times" described brown as, "no angel," sparking major backlash including a protest hash tag on twitter, those who actually knew the young man, they called mike mike, described him in very different terms. >> i met mike mike three years ago, and he truly became my best friend. we spent so much time together
just talking about god. he was truly curious about what god had to offer. he evolved into a man, a good man. and he just wanted so much. he wanted to go to college, he wanted to have a family. he wanted to be a good father, but god chose differently, and i'm at peace about that because he's not a lost soul. his death is not in vain. >> many of the speakers addressed the deep anguish and sense of injustice brought out by the manner of brown's death. ben crump, attorney for the brown family, invoking the history of racial discrimination going all the way back to the notorious 3/5 clause in the u.s. constitution. >> an african-american was to be considered 3/5 of a man, but we declare here today that we pay our final respects to michael brown jr. that he was not 3/5 of a citizen. he was an american citizen.
and we will not accept 3/5 justice. >> msnbc's own reverend al sharpton delivering an impassioned eulogy urged the audience to turn their grief and anger into action. >> we can't have a fit. we've got to have a movement. a fit, you get mad and run out for a couple of nights. a movement means we got to be here for the long haul. and turn our chance into change. a demonstration in the legislation. we have got to stay on this so we can stop this. >> in an emotionally raw interview yesterday, mike brown's parents sitting alongside the parents of trayvon martin, told msnbc's craig melvin what it was like to see their son's body at the funeral home for almost the last time. >> i looked at him. i talked to him.
i touched him. >> not having a conversation with my son, it really bothers me. seeing how he feels. just what's going on in the day. seeing him in the casket today made it reality. >> brown's parents told craig they intend to keep their son's legacy alive long after today's funeral. >> i'm planning on not letting anyone forget my son or what happened to him. because he didn't deserve it. i'm going to make sure -- >> he will never be forgotten. never. >> reverend al sharpton. rev, media was kept out of the sanctuary today for good reason,
obviously, while the service was observed. can you tell us what the mood, the atmosphere, in that room was like. >> i think it was electric. people were energized as well as mourning at the same time. that family was determined to have a dignified and a solemn occasion, but yet, an occasion that was energized. i keep using that word. because it was something that was emotional, uplifting, hopeful, as much as it was that we were putting to rest an 18-year-old child. and i thought that the messages by the religious leaders, we had everyone do prayers for bishop t.d. jakes, to reverend freddy haynes. all of the leaders that were there, many of whom didn't speak. it was the wishes of the family
that i give the eulogy and that the cousin, reverend yule, gave the family eulogy, and i thought it was an impactful testimony to a movement who sees that michael brown is not just a victim, but a symbol of what needs to be addressed in this country. >> you talked about the difference between a fit and a movement. you talked about this being a moment for a movement to take shape. we saw with the eric garner rally in new york on saturday that you were one of the chief organizers of. where does this go from here? it feels like there's something coalescing here but yet has taken its full shape. what do you see happening next? >> i think that you're seeing different parts come together. that's what a movement is. there's a difference between an organization and a movement. from my studies of the civil rights movement in the '60s, and i've been fortunate enough have been mentored by some of those who led it like reverend y.t. walker.
there was dr. king and others doing other things and the sncc, student nonviolent committee. all of these things made the civil rights movement successful, and i think you're seeing disconnected factions that are moving the same way, addressing the militarization of police, addressing how the federal government needs to have laws, setting a climate. we saw, chris, the first time that i can find in history, certainly in my lifetime, a sitting attorney general come to the scene of a civil rights crisis. we give a lot of credit to bobby kennedy, but bobby kennedy never went to the south during the civil rights movement when he was attorney general. he sent people. the fact that we have, the president addressing this issue, the fact the attorney general came to the scene of a police civil rights matter, means we're
being heard. now we must be determined and disciplined to make our chance lead to change and our demonstrations into legislation. as the families have the right to engage the criminal justice system for justice. >> there was a portion in your speech i think will probably get a lot of attention. it was kind of directed inwards about kind of getting our act together. i'm speaking in your voice now about african-americans and acting right and there's a long tradition of this, of course, and there are also critics who hear this and they call it -- they use the term respectability politics, that this is a way to kind of audition for the outside world and that that kind of respectability politics doesn't end up gaining anything. what do you say to those critics who hear that portion of the speech and feel that that takes the eyes off the ball? >> because i think that they don't know what the ball is. the reason i tell our communities to don't act up is they're acting up against us. so it's not about being
respectable to others, it's about respecting each other. so when i said, don't act in a misogynous way, it's not to impress outsiders, it's because our women should be respected. when i say don't do petty crimes in the street, it's not so others won't think ill of us, it's because we shouldn't be doing it to each other. i can care less what the critics say. i think my life has shown that. i care a lot about what we're doing to each other and for each other and that's also why i fight so hard when others do something to us. it would be the height of hypocrisy to say that we're going to make sure we address what happened to michael brown or eric garner in staten island, but we're not going to address what some of the same folks in the community are doing ill to each other. either you're against wrong or you're not. >> rev, there was a big profile of you in "politico" about your relationship with the white house.
you spoke about it on "meet the press." i got to say, in looking at some of the coverages, there's kind of an obsession with you as a figure in some precincts. i can never quite figure out, have you figured out why, why you remain the kind of point of obsession for some people as they watch this play out? >> i mean, it's amazing to me that they always get to the sensational point. am i close to the president? am i too close to those in the streets? am i too this or that? why don't they deal with the work? why don't they deal with the fact that whatever we've been able to do, a lot of people feel we've given voice. i'm in st. louis because the family called and asked me to come to st. louis. the family asked me to come to staten island. why? no one analyzes the work and the success that we've been able to penetrate with no government funding at all.
the fact that i have access to the white house, every president had civil rights leaders that had access to them. there's no story there other than you convinced yourself that i would never be able to perform at that level. that's you misreading me. that's not me not misreading my role and my purpose. >> reverend al sharpton, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> you can catch the reverend's show weekdays at 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. joining me now, anthony gray, attorney for the brown family. mr. gray, thanks for being here. >> how you doing, chris? thank you for having me. >> i have to say, i saw michael brown's mother rocking back and forth throughout the service and it just, it struck me that to put yourself in her shoes and her family's shoes for a moment, amidst all of this is this individual pain and grief of someone that's lost their kid. i spent the weekend with my kids and the whole time i was kind of haunted by, oh my god, to negotiate the level of grief they're going through while the
whole world is watching this insane situation play out, i just can't imagine what it's like for them right now. >> right. it's unspeakable. i'm not sure if i got the words to express it, but i think you're starting with a good example. if you were to imagine yourself with your own kids and your own family scenario, if it got played out that saturday afternoon the same way it did for leslie, how would you feel? and as you just so eloquently described, it would be very difficult to navigate through their personal feelings while the whole world is watching. that's what she has to deal with. she didn't prepare for this. i don't think no parent can prepare for something like this. this was thrown on her, and she's trying to do the best she can to cope with it. >> it's a really interesting moment in the service when one family member got up there, and i forget who it was. it might have been his cousin. who said, i'm hurting, and i'm angry, but i'm going to -- >> todd. >> yeah.
todd said i'm hurting and i'm angry, but i'm in church, and i want -- and it was just such a human moment because there's, you know, folks are still angry. it's like -- >> right, right. >> -- everyone's going to pack up their tents and walk away from ferguson because there's no tear gas to cover, but the people who live here are going to go out and get in their cars and get pulled over by the same ferguson police that were there two weeks ago and the family members are still going to be in ferguson when everyone packs up their tents. >> sure, sure. what he was expressing was indicative of a lot of feelings that are here. i was proud of the fact he was willing to admit that. that he's angry, he's upset. at the same time, we're going to honor mike brown jr. at this moment during this memorial service. i just thought it was an absolutely excellent dichotomy of emotions that he played out on stage, and, you know, i don't know how to put it in words what is going on right now and what's going to happen in the future. it's just so hard to predict what's going to become of this. all i can do is just remain hopeful, chris. remain hopeful. >> what is your role -- what is your role as an attorney for a family that has lost a son, that has a process that's now playing
out in legal channels through the county prosecutor who is investigating the case, has said he won't recuse himself. the governor won't take him off. what are the family's attorney's role in this now? >> to some degree, i counsel them with respect to how the process is supposed to operate. not everybody can understand and take in the real slow churning wheels of the justice system. a part of my role is to give that explanation and let them see how things are from a judicial standpoint. >> county prosecutor bob mcculloch, he had this line where he talked about losing his own father who was a police officer and lost his life in the line of fire.
and say it made him a victim, an advocate for victims. has he contacted the family, bob mcculloch? >> he has not. not that i'm aware of and i serve on the official channel of communications for the family. to my knowledge, i'll qualify that to say, to my knowledge, he's not reached out to the family. >> all right. mr. gray, attorney for the brown family. thank you very much. appreciate it. all right. how is it possible that a terror group that commits such horrible acts of atrocity is able to recruit so many people from the west? that's ahead. much like these majestic rocky mountains. which must be named after the... that would be rocky the flying squirrel, mr. gecko sir. obviously! ahh come on bullwinkle, they're named after... ...first president george rockington! that doesn't even make any sense...mr...uhh...winkle. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. [ male announcer ] since we began, mercedes-benz has pioneered many breakthroughs. ♪ breakthroughs in design...
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the violent islamic militant group isis also known as isil expanded its territory, seizing an air base in northern syria. this amateur video uploaded to social media purports to show that attack and its aftermath, though it can not be independently verified by nbc news. meanwhile, a new and disturbing isis propaganda video emerged. the video shows militants using a drone and committing several atrocities in syria. the united states widely believed to be targeting
militants inside the syrian border, syrian foreign minister today warned the u.s. against such air strikes without the consent of the syrian government. he added the syrian government is, quote, ready to cooperate and coordinate in fighting terrorists. that raises the rather astounding prospect the united states essentially implicitly partnering with the government of bashar al assad. as the u.s. confrontation with isis escalates in syria, there's also importantly grim news out of libya which is, of course, the site of a 2011 international military intervention featuring aerial bombardment, one hailed at the time as successful because it ultimately bought about the death of moammar gadhafi. islamist allied militias on sunday claimed control of tripoli including its international airport. american officials said today that egypt and the united arab emirates have secretly been launching air strikes against those militants without the consent of washington. there are some rare good news out of the region on sunday. officials announced that american writer peter curtis was
freed by a different group in syria, not isis, after being held by two years by al qaeda affiliated group al nusra. a horrific video shows a beheading of american journalist. british intelligence officials tell nbc news they have identified the man they believe murdered foley who speaks with a british accent in the video. the white house today warned of the threat posed by isis militants with ties to the west. >> the other concern that we have and in some ways this is the most significant concern, is that there are individuals with western passports who have taken up arms alongside isil in this fight. and the united states and other western countries harbors a significant concern about those individuals returning to the west to carry out terrorist attacks. >> there are an estimated 2,000 western recruits to isis and similar extremist groups and according to british officials that number includes 70 u.s. citizens and more than 500 from the uk.
many of whom could return home. this weekend, nbc news keir simmons spoke with british citizens in london who openly support isis' mission. >> there are a lot of people who would feel the islamic state does have a duty to protect themselves and defend against america. killing a journalist isn't protecting yourself. >> the vital question to us, who is really to blame for the death of james foley? i believe it's the foreign policy of obama -- >> it's the man who put that knife in his neck, surely. >> well, the thing you've got to ask is, why was this particular man chosen? it seems like he was chosen because he was an american citizen. >> joining me now, mia bloom, professor of security studies at university of massachusetts. author of "bombshell women and terrorism." professor bloom, we all see the videos from isis and i think unanimously across the political spectrum, muslim, jewish, christian, across all regions of the world, people just gasp in
horror at the sheer brutality and yet at the same time, they have been massively successful in recruiting. how has isis been so successful in recruiting? >> isis has two kinds of videos. the videos you're talking about are meant to instill a sense of fear and intimidation against their enemies. whether these are enemies in iraq, or enemies in syria, or the united states. but the other videos that they use are actually quite alluring. they present this idealized version of the caliphate where kids are playing, they use soft lighting. two different ways of using the propaganda. one is a positive one which is resonating with muslims around the world. >> what does the social science tell us about the process of recruitment into a militant extremist group? not just jihadis, but other militant extremist groups. what do we know about who are the kinds of folks that end up
doing something that seems from the outside as insane as dropping your life in east london to go carry in syria for isis? >> well, when you look at the kinds of recruitment across the spectrum, whether it's for extreme right wing area nation, whether it's the jihadi groups, what they tend to do is tend to try to present a picture of what that person is going to really be. it's a fantasy vision, and so they're selling this new improved version of yourself. these are people who want to belong to something bigger than themselves, and they want -- they think that they have a calling of some sorts, and i think that that's what you're seeing. you're seeing people who think that being involved is one thing, but the reality is very different. and that's what we've learned from studying terrorism, talking to former terrorists, seeing
that the discrepancy between what they thought being involved would be like, and what actual involvement was like was so different that sometimes that's when they leave and they give up. >> so what are the countermeasures available in interrupting that process? because obviously it's very worrying to people that anyone would join a group that's committing the kinds of things isis is, but it's also worrying for a security perspective as josh earnest said and others about folks who have passports in the uk or u.s. what are effective ways of combatting that? >> there's one caveat i want to add is the fact the fbi just came out with a statement saying that isis does not pose a real threat to the united states. and if that is the case, then i don't want us to overblow the threat. i think the reason we're paying attention is because of the fact that james foley was massacred in front of a videocamera. but the reality is that most of the people who are going to be going to syria or to iraq, if they come back, they will be followed. they will be tracked. what we can do, some of the
things we can do is actually within the community. the community-led projects that are educating people. what isis and these groups do is bastardize verses from the koran, take them out of context and it's really the fact the people don't have the ballas to be able to fend off this version of islam which is not accurate. so i think teaching people the reality of islam and what the koran actually says would be way to fight their ability to recruit. >> my favorite detail from the week was the two jihadi recruits in the uk who purchased "islam for dummies" apparently en route to join up to jihad. mia bloom from the university of massachusetts. thank you. >> thank you so much for having me. lots of news to report tonight from ukraine. ukrainian military says russian tanks have been crossing the border carrying weapons to pro-russian separatists. the latest on that terrifyingly tight situation, ahead. live in the same communities that we serve.
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northern california is recovering tonight from a powerful earthquake that hit early yesterday morning. the 6.1 magnitude quake struck around 3:20 a.m. sunday with an epicenter just six miles from napa. it's the most powerful earthquake to hit the bay area in 25 years and followed by dozens of aftershocks. california governor jerry brown declared a state of emergency for the region. the city of napa is working to restore services and assess the damage. according to the city, more than 200 people were
treated at a local hospital and there are 90 water line breaks. among the injured, a 13-year-old boy who was seriously hurt when a chimney collapsed on to him. he was listed in serious but stable condition today. more than 30 buildings have been deemed uninhabitable because of the damage to the quake. the cost of the damage is expected to reach as high as $4 billion. now, an early warning system that's still being tested at a uc berkeley lab did work on sunday morning giving a ten-second warning before the earthquake struck. that combined with the resilience of the area engineering is a reminder of just how much the damage of what we call a natural disaster depends on what technology and preparation and institutions are in place when it strikes. we'll be right back. will you be a sound sleeper, or a mouth breather? a mouth breather! [ whimpers ] how do you sleep like that? well, put on a breathe right strip and shut your mouth. allergy medicines open your nose over time, but add a breathe right strip and pow! it instantly opens your nose up to 38% more.
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intensified today. petro poroshenko announced the dissolution of the parliament, early elections to be held at the end of october. he said he was operating under the ukraine an constitution since lawmakers failed to form a new majority within 30 days after the ruling coalition collapsed in a heap in july. lawmakers will continue working until a new parliament is elected. as for how voting should take place should areas of ukraine remain under rebel control, well, that remains to be seen. that news comes on the same day as russia's announcement it will send a second convoy carrying what it calls humanitarian aid to ukraine. shortly after a convoy which some referred to as a trojan horse crossed the border into ukraine without kiev's permission, drawing condemnation from nato, european union and the u.s. amid reported from the "associated press" that convoys coming from the direction of russia have been consistently spotted crossing into ukraine carrying military weapons and heading toward pro-moscow separatists.
state department spokesperson jen psaki says it remains unclear, two days after it was to return to russia and another would already aggravate an already tense situation. >> russia continues to fuel the conflict with weapons, training personnel, and material. it's also not clear that all the trucks and drivers departed. while we are certainly concerned about russian plans for a second aid convoy, any new mission done without the explicit permission of ukraine would not be another provocative measure that would only escalate a situation president putin claims he wants to resolve. >> a divide between parts of the country still governed by kiev, and those controlled by russian affiliated separatists was starkly illustrated on sunday. ukraine's independence day. kiev, the capital, put forth a display of national pride and military power while russian separatists held their own parade, marching ukrainian prisoners through donetsk to a cheering crowd.
joining me, chris murphy from connecticut, member of the senate foreign affairs committee. we have an ongoing war in gaza, there's the horrible situation in iraq in syria, we've been covering ferguson here. every time i go to the newspaper or check in on the situation in russia or ukraine, i think to myself, this might be the worst powder keg in the entire world right now and just seems to get worse. how do you feel about it? >> well, you know, it certainly has been pushed off the front pages, but i don't know that we should elevate the situation in ukraine above what's happening in the middle east right now. it's tempting to do that because we like looking at old paradigms and trying to apply them to new problems, and of course, we understand the cold war, so when russia acts, we have this instinct to act with equal force back. but this isn't the cold war any longer. doesn't matter to us as much as it did 30 years ago what russia does. and, well, we've got a dangerous precedent being set here that a country is infringing upon the borders of its neighbor.
what putin is doing here is continuing to show his weakness, not his strength, because as he loses ground, he panics and puts new pieces on to the board. he was losing the military battle in big ways in eastern ukraine. he decided to move toward a settlement conversation and strengthen his hand in that conversation. he starts to move convoys in. i think we're right to be focusing more energy right now on isis and right not to get dragged into a situation where everything russia does has to be met with an equal counterweight by the united states. >> here's the question, senator. then is essentially the status quo, which is you have the ukrainian government that's having a hard time essentially keeping a government in power but has had an aggressive military push into the separatist regions, russia convoy, that essentially this status quo is essentially a tolerable equilibrium for now? >> well, i don't think it's
tolerable, but i think that we need to take steps that actually can effectuate a change and that would be to continue to stand up the government in kiev. this is a very troubling time, both politically and economically there, and to the extent that the people of eastern ukraine have to make a choice between supporting the separatists and supporting the government in kiev, they need to see that there is a new economic pathway for their country coming out of their capital. and europe and the united states can support that. but, of course, this is russia's playbook. we have these frozen conflicts in georgia, in moldova, now they're trying to create another one in eastern ukraine, so this isn't the only part of that region in this which is happening. that's not to excuse it, but it's not a new tactic by the russians. >> right, but then the question is, geostrategically, can that be a -- essentially, is that the best of bad options when other people are calling for ratcheting up the pressure or more focus on sending arms to ukraine, that essentially a frozen conflict like the ones we
see in other parts of that area of the world is essentially the best of bad options? >> so, the question is what are your options and what are you prepared to do? it does not matter enough to us to put heavy military weight behind the ukrainians beyond the assistance we're giving. it does matter enough to continue to ratchet up sanctions on the russians. there is this debate being played out within the kremlin that ultimately the oligarchs may win, those that are actually being hurt by these sanctions. more broadly, we're sending a message outside russia, countries like china that might be thinking to settle their territorial disputes outside of diplomatic channels. it may be that ratcheting up sanction might not change putin's behavior, but it stops this from becoming the norm in other parts of the world. we just have to decide what we're prepared to do, and i don't think major military intervention is now in the cards. >> senator chris murphy, thank you. >> thanks. michael brown and eric
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let us be real clear. the only thing if you have a bushel of apples, the only thing that messes up good apples is if you don't take the rotten apples out the bushel. we are not the ones making the cops look bad. it's the bad apples that you won't take out the bushel. >> the funeral today for mike brown, an unarmed teenager shot and killed by ferguson,
missouri, police officer, darren wilson, comes two days after a rally in staten island, new york, for eric garner, a father of six killed after being placed in a choke hold by a new york city police officer last month. this movement that is now coalescing, this call for justice, is no longer about a particular set of circumstances in missouri or new york. it's about acknowledging, confronting overzealous policing and finding systemic ways to bring accountability for it. any reporter who's interviewed police or spent time interviewing police departments knows there's many, many cops doing good work under difficult circumstances. even in my brief time in during ferguson, missouri, policing clearly crossed the line, like when police launched tear gas at a news crew armed with a camera, microphone and lights. one officer allegedly pointed a gun at a photographer and said this -- get down!
get the [ bleep ] down! get the [ bleep ] out of here even get your lights down. >> or when an officer was caught on camera pointing a semiautomatic assault rifle at an unarmed protester and threatening to kill him. >> my hands are up, bro. my hands are up. >> hands up. hands up. [ bleep ]. hands up. >> i will [ bleep ] kill you. get back. hands up. >> that officer identified as lieutenant ray albers was relieved of duty and suspended, but it makes me think that if it wasn't for the national press scrutiny surrounding the shooting death of michael brown, the actions of some police officers here in st. louis area may never have been exposed. in fact, odds are lieutenant albers would be doing traffic stops in st. anne as i speak saying god knows what to those he pulled over. what if there wasn't the press scrutiny, what if so many troubling incidents were not caught on camera? a woman in los angeles
repeatedly punched in the face by a member of the california highway patrol. what then? the culture of police departments values loyalty and solidarity. police have to look after their own because they so often have to back each other up in dangerous and uncertain circumstances. that same trait that can be a virtue in the line of fire. what remedy is there when his colleagues continue to close ranks? joining me now, former nypd detector marq claxton, director of the black law enforcement alliance, and bernard parks, now a democratic council member for the city of los angeles. gentleman, there's one example of one way of dealing with accountability, "washington post" reporting on the jennings police department, jennings municipality right here, the department darren wilson first enrolled in as an officer. "the small city of jennings, missouri, had a police officer so troubled with so much tension between white officers and black residents, the city council decided to disband it. one of the officers who worked in the department lost his job along with everyone else was a young man named darren wilson. that hardly seems like a
saleable solution. "it makes you wonder how many other departments out there that are that rotten to the core. >> and for many people, that's what's happening in ferguson, is so poignant and relevant to manypeople across the nation and tends to have us question how many other departments operate in the same or similar fashion and have been operating in darkness over all these years? and at times of tragedy, or incidents such as this, will then be exposed and thank god for certain aspects of it being exposed because it gives us opportunity to talk about it on a national level. >> councilman parks, let me ask you a question about lapd training. you were riding out with your partner and someone's jay walking and your partner, maybe a new partner, maybe someone you've had for a while, says to the young man who's jay walking, get the "f" off the street, or in a traffic stop says something demeaning and derogatory to
someone, is that officer the partner trained to say, hey, i didn't like that tone you took or to file some report or to have some kind of confrontation, or is that just kind of a shrug and you go on? >> well, i think it's handled in a variety of ways, hopefully there's not a lot of shrugs and go on. in lapd for decades, it's been a standard operating procedure that in an officer is aware of misconduct, they're obligated to report it. now, the key is the balance, it's also that the public also should have some obligation to report it and the more that you bring it to the attention of the police department, the media also has a role, if they become aware of it, that is how you ensure there's transparency. it is not a transparent department when the public does not report it or the police department chooses not to investigate it and it doesn't go any farther. >> councilman, what's the bar for misconduct? i mean, what am i told as an lapd officer is something that
should trigger me filing one of those reports? >> the issue is very simple. if you become aware of anything that you believe is misconduct, failure to take reports, to a variety of things in which -- may be available. when i became chief, we changed the system to where no longer did you give the supervisor the ability to determine whether misconduct occurred. we changed it to say if a complaint is made, you shall take it and it shall be investigated. it eliminated that in between discretion where we found so many complaints were not being dealt with properly. >> mr. claxton, you know, i've covered institutional corruption in other settings, in enron, wall street, major league baseball and the steroids era, in the catholic church during the child rape scandal. all those cases we should say
police departments aren't alone in protecting their own, first of all. there's a big difference between what official policy might be and how the culture operates. so, if councilman park says, well, it's official policy, you're trained to if you see misconduct, file a report. that doesn't necessarily mean that's what the culture of the place will tolerate when you have to go back to the locker room at the end of your shift. >> absolutely. absolutely. the same policy exists in the nypd as far as mandatory reporting of corruption. however, just the mandatory reporting of corruption does not necessarily result in a positive result. i mean, people have to have confidence that not only will they report these incidents, police officers have to have confidence not only will they report these incidents, but they'll be taken seriously and there will be steps taken to ensure that corruption and oftentimes we call it criminality, corruption, but i'll play along, that corruption is dealt with, you know, effectively. people lose confidence in the system. the public has lost confidence
in the mandatory reporting system of corruption. and the police officers have lost confidence in the mandatory reporting of corruption. and until people have that confidence restored, there will always be the problems of reporting integrity issues, corruption issues, criminality issues and expecting a positive result. >> former nypd detective marq claxton, former lapd chief bernard parks, thank you both. >> thank you, chris. could police officer body cameras help fix misconduct? i'll ask another former police officer, next. ♪
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get on the ground. [ bleep ]. get down. get the [ bleep ] down. put your hand behind your back. put your hand behind your back! put your hand behind your back or you're going to regret it right now. >> i'm trying. >> put your hand behind your back. hand behind your back! >> that was video from the realto police department outside los angeles in february of 2012. officers were outfitted with uniform cameras in the year after the cameras were introduced, according to a study out of cambridge university, get this, officers used force 59% less often and complaints files against officers dropped by 88% compared with the previous 12 months. joining me, former police officer, peter moskos, and
author of the book "cop in the hood." peter, this idea is gaining a lot of attention. what to you think of the idea of body cams for police officers? >>? the long run they're inevitable and they're coming. it's going to be initial opposition from police officers, but by in large when police officers have them, they end up liking them. that stat you just showed, 88% fewer complaints is part of the reason why. look, in the modern age, everything is being filmed. so it's incredibly useful to have a camera from the police officer's perspective that doesn't just show the last 15 seconds of some scuffle, but shows everything that leads up to it. >> right, i remember actually covering a big fight in the illinois state legislature with
a young state senator, barack obama, over video recording homicide interrogations and one of the arguments being made by folks, this was a protection essentially for law enforcement as much it was for suspects because if someone said their interrogation was, you know, brought about in an illicit means, they can point to the camera. you think there'd be something like that to this body camera as well. >> absolutely. a lot of reasons there aren't more cameras is simply money. it all comes down to that. you have money issues. you have a culture of paranoia in the rank and file police organization. the duty to report misconduct is such a vague and typically asinine rule of a police department, because what does that mean, if an officer cusses someone out, if an officer uses discretion? it's so much easier said than done. it's not so much there's this blue wall of silence, but no police officer lives in a glass house. all police officers violate regulations. i'm not talking about corruption or brutality. the system has to be fair to the police officers as well. >>. >> that point about discretion i think is a really important one.
one of the biggest takeaways from your excellent book is that is the amount of discretion and authority a police officer has just -- even the lowliest beat cop in how they conduct themselves, i thought having body cams is a great way to get a sense of what and what doesn't work in policing even when we're not talking about violent altercations. >> they're going to limit discretion. you're going to see cops -- which is not always necessarily good -- always do things by the book when sometimes that's not the right answer. you don't want cops to arrest someone every time they commit a crime. sometimes they need a cussing out. sometimes you need that. sometimes against departmental regulation. having this openness is far going to outweigh the bad. >> peter moskos of john j. college, thanks for your time. we're in ferguson tonight. there are no militarized vehicles behind me, no protesters out, largely respecting the wishes of the brown family.
the national media packed up their lights and are going to go home. i'm going to go home tomorrow, all things with travel. i want you to know we're not going to give up this story and following it and talking about the moment we have in criminal justice and policing in this country, just because there's no tear gas and nothing to chase in the streets. the story is still there. we are going to cover it night in and night out. "the rachel maddow show" starts now. good evening, rachel. joining us this hour. happy monday. one of the strategies the u.s. army uses in recruiting efforts is they'll sometimes take very young soldiers, soldiers just out of basic training, and they'll assign those young soldiers to recruitment centers back in their hometowns. or at least near to where they, themselves, grew up and where they, themselves, decided to join the u.s. army. it's not the only strategy the army uses for recruiting,